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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: ЧБ проявка негативной цветной пленки
СообщениеДобавлено: 03 фев 2014, 14:56 
Не в сети

Зарегистрирован: 07 ноя 2010, 14:04
Сообщений: 67
Откуда: Ravenstein, the Netherlands
Цитата:
Блин, какой этот английский трудный, может, лучше на Эсперанто?


After Dutch, English is the most easy language to learn for us. Then German (only for correct writing it is more complicated). Then the Roman type languages like French, Spanish etc. and French is not very populair here. Talking and writing Russian it is an insane language for us. 8)

Svema was never on the West-European market so I never could try it. In their last years the cassettes were filled with OEM film from Foma, Czech Republic.
OrWo (=now Filmotec) I tried because they had export for hard valuta to West Europe. Their color films were moderate quality but their slow speed B&W films were good (NP15). OrWo died around 1994/1995. Now the OrWo Filmotec factory is selling motion film and TSF (Traffic Surveillance Films).

During a very short time in 2004 some old batches FP4/HP5 were sold when ilford/Harman went in bankruptcy. But that was not a big supply. They re-started with a management buy out and without selling any original Ilford films to any third party anymore.
That was different when Agfa Photo went in bankruptcy in 2005/2006. Floating over a big stock of APX-100, sold under LUPUS APX-100, sold under Rollei Retro 100 (Film brand name of Maco from Hamburg-Stapelfeld Germany). The other Agfa film stock was less but you could buy Optima 400 C41 in bulk (30,5m) exp. 2007 for Eur. 10 (approx. 100 Grivna). Cheap assy of the raw APX-100 material was sold for Eur. 1,75 (135-36) (17,50 Grivna) till approx. 2010. The reason was that Agfa produced a very large stock of this film just before they closed the factory.
When Forte in Hungary in 2007 stopped they did not have any large stock. Their films were pretty bad but their photo papers were sold and also under the Bergger Brand name in France. But small stocks so in a few months it was gone.
The same with Fotokemika in Croatia. They could make interesting small batches of special films but often a lack of quality. In fact they continued making the old Dr. Schleussner/Adox single layer type films on Polyester base till 2012 (Efke 25/50/100 and their Adox equivalents, exactly the same films) when they were forced to stop because they ran out of money and nobody want to invest in an old fashioned factory. These stocks were also depleted in a few months.
Since last year Kodak went also in a type of bankruptcy. After re-organisation the film division went independent but they made obselete already all special films (TP, Ortho, HIE-IR and later Kodachrome, all Ektachrome E6, Tmax 3200, PXP etc.) in fact left over Tmax 100/400, Tri-X 400 and their Portra C41 films 160/400/800 and Ektar 100)
Also Fuji downsized quickly all their production, stopping in 2007 in Holland (Tilburg factory) all consumer type films for Europe production. They have a very small film program left over too but still a few E6 films.
The last competitor for Ilford in UK was bought in 2007 too (Kentmere) so it is now a B brand for cheaper films and photo papers for some special markets. For example they are selling under LUPUS APX-100 (NEW) the Kentmere 100 film in Europe.
Also the special papers for Bergger are made by Ilford/Harman now so is the complete line Rollei RPX 25/100/400 B&W films: Special application by Ilford. All other special Rollei films came from Fotokemika (Pan 25, ATO2,1, Retro 100 TONAL) and also finished in 2012.
On the other hand the Rollei Retro (S) (S)ynthetic films are coming from Agfa Gevaert In Belgium, in fact aviation type emulsions. Aviphot pan 80 PE1 (100um) Retro 80S, Aviphot pan 200 PE1 Retro 400S/Rollei Superpan 200, Aviphot pan 400 PE1, IR-400(S). Aviation, hence the extended Red sensitivity of these type films.
The reason that all type films are on the same 100um Polyester base. Sharp film type emulsion, fine grain but they push bad. THE reason Rollei/Maco introduced the RPX film line. Agfa Gevaert is also producing some micro film type: Sold under Rollei ATP1,1 and Adox CMS 20 or Agfa Copex. SPUR in Germany is making the special (low contrast) chemicals for these films and a few more like the dedicated RPX-D Rollei developer for the RPX 100/400 line films. In fact the same trick Ilford is doing with DD-X for their Delta films to create maximum speed for their high speed films.
Now Ferriania in Italy want to start up again film production. A very complicated and dangerous project. Like the Impossible Project (polaroid type) film from IP in Holland (Enschede). I can say from good resources that IP did not made any profit yet after a few years. They could not start from the old Polaroid type quality but much less and they had to improved step for step. So like their name suggests: Impossible Project it is indeed almost a mission impossible and very dangerous.

Foma sold in the past some films to Svema, later Paterson and now on the USA market under Arista brand. They made a huge quality improvement during the last years. But they have a medical dpt. too of X-ray films. Comparing to Kodak, Fuji and ilford/Harman they are pretty small but in the last 20 years more populair in West Europe.

Conclusion: Real cheap films are not on the market anymore because obselete stocks has been depleted so depending on the film format you're using you can look for B&W motion film or a good offer from Foma which is in general the cheapest in actual film production. For a regular 135-36 Fomapan 100 you will pay around Eur. 3,25 (32,50 Grivna) incl. our nice 21% VAT in the Netherlands.
If you look at a same ilford FP4+ film you will pay almost the double price (at least here in Holland). If you look at Kodak: They do not have such an equivalent film anymore in their program and Fuji has only the Acros 100 left (also expensive), a modern technology film like Tmax100/400 and Delta 100/400.
In iso 400 Fomapan 400 (but in fact an iso 250 film) half priced comparing to HP5+, Tri-X 400 a bit cheaper, no Fuji iso 400 film anymore and then you have the modern technology films TMY-2 and Delta 400, also expensive.
In high speed B&W film only Delta 3200 left with a Dutch price around Eur. 8,50 (85 Grivna). And in slow speed the Ilford Pan F+, Rollei Retro 80S (in fact iso 50 too) and their new RPX 25 film. Apart from that the document type films Rollei ATP1,1 , Adox CMS 20, Copex, not extremely in price but with technical limitations, slow speed (iso 6-20) and expensive special developers.
In between the Fomapan 200, iso 160 and a mix between cubical and hexagonal silver crystals. A nice film but soft in emulsion.

Good luck in your choice for finding cheap film!

_________________
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://www.Svema.info
http://Gallery.FotohuisRoVo.nl/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/
Nataliya Stepanova =Favorit


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: ЧБ проявка негативной цветной пленки
СообщениеДобавлено: 03 фев 2014, 22:32 
Не в сети

Зарегистрирован: 07 ноя 2010, 14:04
Сообщений: 67
Откуда: Ravenstein, the Netherlands
The actual Chinese films like GP3 or Lucky SHD 100 are crappy films. They even do not have any anti haliation (A.H.-) layer on it so in frontlight situations you can not use these films due to internal reflection of the emulsion. Further the confectioning is not very good too.
In the past they were on our market but disappeared due to the lack of any quality.
Efke/Fotokemika went in bankruptcy in August 2012 so what remains is rest stock. I like their Efke 25 film which was Orthopan film and easy to create a large Grey tonal range with very fine grain. The film was also sold under Rollei PAN 25 and Adox CHS 25 with a slightly better quality control and was doing extremely well in Rodinal/R09, Beutler or FX-1 all very high acutance type developers. Now Rollei/Maco made a deal with Ilford /Harman for a new Rollei RPX 25 film I think it will be a modified PAN F+ emulsion. Their Rollei Ortho film which was also made by Efke is now produced exclusivly by OrWo Filmotec. Filmotec doesn't have an own coating plant so they have to rely on Innovisvoat (Germany) or Foma (Czech Republic).
Profesionally I have done the export for Amaloco photochemicals, the Netherlands to Middle and East Europe hence my connections to different factories. But Amaloco stopped producing in Holland in 2008 due to a sharp decreasing market Europe wide.
What rest for me is a hobby related web shop with some interesting manufacturers in Europe. In the mean time I found a regular technical job because staying in photo business in Holland is no future anymore.
If you want to try a few films in my film program, I sometimes have almost expired films and if an envelope is not going over 100 grams I would be pleased to send you a few films for trying. Just give me a hint of your film format which you're using.

Just another thing how in the Netherlands people are looking at your country now:
You also take care. Ukraine and Kiev is every day on the Dutch television now. It is almost a complete revolution and the power of the president and the government is getting less and less. But it is pretty scary because police is shooting already on the people and if the military army will be used against the people of Ukraine the chaos will be complete. On one hand Poetin is pressing to re-establish the order and on the other side EU is pressing to Janokovic to get away because he has lost all confidence and support from the people of Ukraine. When passing illegal laws in the parlement to get rid of the right of demonstration for your own benefit and continue stealing money from the country there will be only one verdict: Get away for such a criminal president. They can put him better in prison as neighbor for Timoshenko.
The problem about this situation is that the EU had a too weak offer for Ukraine and that Poetin took the chance to get back Ukraine in a new economical power. Playing with the gas contract for Ukraine and the threat to block all main product delivery to Russia.
Your president took the way of the least resistance and for short termin money in his own pocket. And this is the result.
You can only pray for a good solution because a rat in an emergency situation can do very strange things.

Do not worry about your English. If I would try to explain this in Russian or Ukraine language nobody would understand me. I only want to tell you that Europe is looking at Ukraine and want to develop a fair relationship with it. I come from the cold war era. I have been on Checkpoint Charlie in Berlin when Russian and East German VOPO put their loaded AK-47 on my back. But I traveled last years in your country by car over 3000km and I found friendly people but a difficult and great language problem unless I can speak (of course Dutch) English, German, French a little bit Czech and very little bit Russian language.

Paka, paka :))

_________________
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://www.Svema.info
http://Gallery.FotohuisRoVo.nl/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/
Nataliya Stepanova =Favorit


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: ЧБ проявка негативной цветной пленки
СообщениеДобавлено: 03 фев 2014, 23:26 
Не в сети

Зарегистрирован: 07 ноя 2010, 14:04
Сообщений: 67
Откуда: Ravenstein, the Netherlands
Just some pics what I did with Efke 25 film:

Изображение
Efke_25_UP_25_web-2 by Fotohuis (Robert), on Flickr

Efke 25 in Beutler 1+1+10 7:00 minutes. Leica M7+Summarit 2,5/75mm.

Изображение
Along the river Maas by Fotohuis (Robert), on Flickr

Efke 25/Rollei Pan 25 in Rodinal/R09 1+50. Cosina Voigtländer Bessa III 667.

Изображение
M7 Summarit 2,5/75mm on Efke 25 film. by Fotohuis (Robert), on Flickr

Efke 25 in Rodinal/09 1+50. Leica M7+Summarit 2,5/75mm. My Dalmatian dog and my lovely wife which is my direct connection to Ukraine.

If you're interested some test with micro film, in this way Rollei ATP1,1 (from Agfa Gevaert Belgium) in the Film Low Gamma developer from Uddo Rafay, a German chemist and sold under OEM to Rollei under Rollei Low Contrast developer. E.I. 20 and 1+5 RLC for 6:30 minutes.

Изображение
Summicron 2,0/50mm or Jupiter-8 2,0/50mm ? by Fotohuis (Robert), on Flickr

Zorki 4K and Jupiter-8.

Изображение
ATP1.1 in RLC, Zorki 4K + J-12 by Fotohuis (Robert), on Flickr

Zorki 4K and Jupiter-12.

I also have a FED5b and a FED3 with some Industar-61 lenses. Just busy in a lens test.
Looking at the J-8 (Zeiss Sonar type design) and the J-12 (Zeiss Biogon type design) the optics are remarkable good.

Изображение
Summicron 2,0/50mm or Jupiter-8 2,0/50mm ? by Fotohuis (Robert), on Flickr

Same test and film some years before with my M7+Summicron 2,0/50mm.

So don't worry about your FED/Zorki cameras and Jupiter/Industar lenses. A Summicron of Eur. 1850,- is slightly better then a good assy J-8 lens of Eur. 50,-
I have the same examples of an Elmarit and the J-12 which is a lens with a minimum of distortion. Only the materials of a hand made German lens is better, more sturdy and especially the type of grease which is used is from better quality. But the same quality grease you can put into your Industar lens and also then this lens is working very smoothly. I have done this with my lenses and on the internet you can find all details how to do it.

Although some people are dreaming of having a Leica camera (and optics) I can say honestly that with any good condition Ukraine or Russian camera and optics you can produce excellent pictures. More important is that you can handle the camera and know how the film material is reacting on the light contrast situation and the best deal for a suitable developer.

Good luck for you all in your hobby and interest in photography.

Robert / Роберт

_________________
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://www.Svema.info
http://Gallery.FotohuisRoVo.nl/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/
Nataliya Stepanova =Favorit


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: ЧБ проявка негативной цветной пленки
СообщениеДобавлено: 05 фев 2014, 17:04 
Не в сети

Зарегистрирован: 07 ноя 2010, 14:04
Сообщений: 67
Откуда: Ravenstein, the Netherlands
Starting with your last question:


0 - 20 g 1 x International 1 € 1,05
20 - 50 g 2 x International 1 € 2,10
50 - 100 g 3 x International 1 € 3,15
100 - 250 g 5 x International 1 € 5,25
250 g - 2 kg 9 x International 1 € 9,45

Package 0-2kg Eur. 20,60
Package 2-5kg Eur. 27,60
Package 5-10kg Eur. 33,60
Insurance of packages max. Eur. 500,00 and they have a track&trace.

Payment outside EU is a big problem. Within the EU free of charge with the SEPA banktransfer, a simple IBAN (International Bank Account Number) and BIC (Bank Interchange Code), done electronically within a few minutes about these numbers and the name of the account holder.
Since this month a local national bank transfer is also done via the same IBAN.
Going outside the EU the use of the IBAN and the BIC/Swift to Ukraine is depending on which bank the transfer is going. And you do not know this in advance.
So from my ING it is maybe going via the Deutsche Bank to your bank or vice versa. Each bank takes Eur. 10,00 - Eur. 15,00 provision so the transfer can be in between Eur. 20,00 - Eur. 30,00. How good it is working within the European Union how insane the system works outside the EU.
When doing a Western Union transfer the minimum is Eur. 10,00 and the rest is depending on the amount of money you want to transfer. And of course W.U. knows the regular rating of any bank transfer.
You can sent money (biljets) over in an envelope or give the money to my family in Ukraine.

All packages must be according CN22/CN23 custom declaration. It normally will pass if not going over Eur. 22,- of value. At a certain moment you have to pay import duties.

So when doing you a favor I can better put a few films in an envelope with CN22 as gift and forget all payment and all problems for a simple transaction.
When you're in Mykolaiv just give my family 100 Grivnas for the effort.

Цитата:
Politics divides people and makes them enemies.

You are right but looking at the past a closer relationship with Europe would be better then being a victim of a non democratic, totalitarian Russia. The people of Ukraine deserves a better future.


Цитата:
After one month studying Esperanto

Just keep it simple in normal simple English. I can understand this because I make a lot of mistakes too.

Цитата:
Just today I finished repair an old camera FED-2
I also have a lot of fun with my RF cameras. I just refurbished two Industar-61 lenses, one L/D and one Zebra type.
http://mattsclassiccameras.com/industar_relubing/index.html

Код:
In most cases, I use the most simple cameras "Smena" and "Elikon-535." Also often use "Zenit-19", for which there lenses "Mir-1V" (37mm), "Helios-44-2" (50mm) and "Arsat-M 80-200."

Some I even never hear from, can you imagine!

Just I will put a picture made by me in the cold war (1988). I was just a few meters away from the point of no return. Checkpoint Charlie the famous barrier between West and East Berlin and a place where a lot of people were shot because they wanted to go for their freedom.

Изображение
Allied Checkpoint Charlie by Fotohuis (Robert), on Flickr

Remember that a lot of people died for their effort for freedom and justice. And maybe the same type of people are doing this for your country in Kiev now.
My feelings are with those who want a future for their country in a free Europe and for the Russian federation I have a bad feeling when an ex-KGB agent is a president of a very powerful country.

_________________
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://www.Svema.info
http://Gallery.FotohuisRoVo.nl/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/
Nataliya Stepanova =Favorit


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: ЧБ проявка негативной цветной пленки
СообщениеДобавлено: 09 фев 2014, 21:44 
Не в сети

Зарегистрирован: 07 ноя 2010, 14:04
Сообщений: 67
Откуда: Ravenstein, the Netherlands
I only want to explain that for small int. ordering the accumulating costs are outrages compared to the ordered materials. So putting a few films in an airpack enveloppe by regular post and payment to my relatives in Ukraine is the only low cost option left.

_________________
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://www.Svema.info
http://Gallery.FotohuisRoVo.nl/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/
Nataliya Stepanova =Favorit


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: ЧБ проявка негативной цветной пленки
СообщениеДобавлено: 24 фев 2015, 11:08 
Не в сети

Зарегистрирован: 07 ноя 2010, 14:04
Сообщений: 67
Откуда: Ravenstein, the Netherlands
One year later:
A flight MH-17 which has been shot by a guided rocket in July 2014 supplied by Russia. Blood is on the hands of Putin. In Holland they will never forget this.

In the mean time an almost complete war, civil war or set up war. Just how to see the country Ukraine falling apart.

Economic almost stops in development. if I look at the currency UA Grivna last week. Gone from Euro last year 1:10 going down slowly to 1:18 last week and now within a week over 1:30.

This is a very bad situation. Europe is hesitating for massive delivery of weapons to Ukraine and under which conditions? Mariupol will be the next city for the separatists and Russia. Of course because they need a corridor to Crimnea.

Even not a "cold war" is back, a real war and threatening of our borders is back. We have to stop this idiot in the Kremlin!

_________________
"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl
http://www.Svema.info
http://Gallery.FotohuisRoVo.nl/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotohuisrovo/
Nataliya Stepanova =Favorit


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